OTA Update 6/11
From the Truman Sports Complex
The Chiefs ran through their ninth of 14 OTA sessions on Thursday morning and if they were keeping score - which they aren’t - it would be another victory for the defense.
In the teamwork portion of the practice in a dozen plays, QBs Matt Cassel and Tyler Thigpen were a combined two of seven throwing the ball. Cassel missed all three of his throws, while Thigpen was two of four. It was that kind of day for the offense.
“I feel like we made a lot of progress Tuesday on offense, but we kind of took a step back today,” said head coach Todd Haley. “After a day off, conditions were not ideal with a little wet field, we’ve got to learn to compete and execute in all types of conditions.”
For the first time in this off-season the Chiefs ran the two-minute drill and it did not end well for Cassel and the No. 1 offense. They had to go 70 yards in 90 seconds with two timeouts and they needed a touchdown to win. Cassel’s throw on the eighth play with 18 seconds left bounced off the hands and shoulder of WR Dwayne Bowe and was grabbed by CB Maurice Leggett for an interception.
The second offense faced a situation with 55 seconds to play, one timeout and they needed a FG to win, starting at their own 35-yard line. Thigpen got them into FG territory on six plays with 11 seconds left before they used their timeout.
There were 82 of the team’s 85 players on the field. Missing from the workout were the usual suspects: rookie CB Donald Washington, LG Brian Waters and OLB Mike Vrabel.
Here are some other observations from the session:
– The rehab crew was down to three players, as DE Glenn Dorsey returned to practice. He worked with the first-team defense at RDE. QB Brodie Croyle, RB Kolby Smith and DT Ron Edwards did not take part in the practice.
– In the two-minute drill, RB Jamaal Charles caught a pass and did not get out of bounds to stop the clock, forcing the offense to take a timeout. He heard about that from assistant coach Maurice Carthon.
– On the No. 1 defense, CB Richardo Colclough was running with the unit, replacing Leggett with the starters.
– In teamwork, TE Sean Ryan ran with the No. 1 offense in front of Brad Cottam.
– Rookie WR Quentin Lawrence got an earful from the head coach when he didn’t lineup correctly and then didn’t run the right route.
– Working in the red zone during the seven-on-seven passing drill, Cassel and Thigpen went five of 10 and only one ball got into the end zone. Thigpen hit WR Rodney Wright just inside the goal line.
– In the teamwork p ortion of practice, they ran six plays in the red zone. Cassel’s first throw to WR Terrance Copper was knocked down in the end zone by Colclough. His second throw to WR Mark Bradley was defensed well by CB Brandon Flowers. Thigpen got the only ball into the end zone, finding Cottam on the right side for the score.
seems that our o stinks. thigpen outplaying cassels is no good. hope our defense is the best ever or it doesn’t bode will for the o show
I’m not too worried yet. Thats what training camp is for. 2 a days, live, sleep, eat, breathe football to get the units on the same page. We could be saying the same thing about the D if Cassel had punched a couple in for TDs.
Everyone has bad days, so lets not read too much into it.
Great update, hard to really put much into the struggles of the offense till hitting begins.
However the defensive backs on this team seem to be well ahead of everyone else
Glad to hear Dorsey is back to working er, practicing.
Bowe better get his shi* together, I don’t think Haley’s gonna play this dropping the ball thing like the Chiefs former (I use the following word w/ tongue firmly planted in cheek) “brain” trust did.
Nice to hear Haley say the team has to learn to play in adverse conditions, rather than move inside every time the sky was cloudy.
It would be nice to know if the Chiefs are still running (imo) the hoaky ass offense they ran last season. all shotgun, spread the D out crap. Also how does the run game look in short yardage and goal line, can the O-Line get ANY penetration, can it convert a 3rd and less than a foot? I think that will be a big part of the Chiefs having some success this season.
“Cassel missed all three of his throws…”
“…was grabbed by CB Maurice Leggett for an interception.”
“…combined two of seven throwing the ball.”
We’re glad the QB’s and WR’s showed up for work when it’s voluntary - there’s work to be done.
Who cares whether it’s a shot gun offense dumbass, as I recall it was the most points we scored since 2005 when Trent Green was in his prime..We went from blowing on offense to efficient..
I’m okay with whatever works on offense..It’s clear their will be a lot of shot gun formations so sorry to worry you..
Our offense will be fine..Not worried..We’ve got some talent on the O..It just needs to gel..We’re not even wearing pads yet, nothing to worry about
“efficient”
adj.
1. Acting directly to produce an effect: an efficient cause. See synonyms at effective.
2.
1. Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort.
2. Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.
Uh Huh, Much the same way GM, and Chrysler were efficient, or the Federal Government?
I would be happy to see Thiggy pass up Cassel. I’m not a huge Cassel fan, but I love the way that Thiggy stepped up last year. 3rd string to 1st is a large jump and he handled it very well. If Tyler had Moss and Welker at his disposal last year, he would have exceled just like Cassel did. Maybe even more. There is no question that Tyler is durable, and from the sound of it, he has the right attitude and work ethic. Plus, Thiggy is one runnin son of a b*%ch.
I agree with Foote, I love the way T Thig played last year, even though our record was awful. I don’t think you can blame our failure completely on the QB–he stepped up and did a decent job despite the situation he was in.
Dream on, barring injury if Cassel can stand up right, he is the starting QB.
Glad to see Dorsey is able to work, now he can start proving me wrong. I still think we are short on offense, prove me wrong.
Aaahhhh who doesn’t love a human dictionary.
anonymous,
It’d be nice to know with whom I’m agreeing…(especially to make sure you’re not JasonWhitlock)…
1946, how can you not recognize Thiggy’s potential. I live in Georgia on the border of South Carolina, and have never heard of Caostal Carolina. The guy stepped behind the worst line in football, having never started, and wound up despite a horribble first couple of games with a great touchdown to interception ratio, and did amazingly well considering his experience, and circumstance. I think he may be a Great quarterback in the wings. I mean most good quarterbacks who step into a good situation struggle in their first year. Cassel did well owhen he started on the superbowl champion patriots. Yeah he has the number and the wins but can you compare NE with KC? the answer is NO you cannot 1946. I think Thiggy may end up being a good quarterback but who knows, maybe he is the next Peyton Manning….
Thigpen consistantly overthrew his recievers last year. It wouldn’t have mattered if he had had Moss and Welker either unless they were olypic high jumpers. Tyler played his heart out, but he didn’t play lights out.
Thigpen didn’t get sacked as many times as Cassel did last year and Cassel was behind a lot better O-line than Thigpen, he threw for 1000 less yards than Cassel in two less games, but only 3tds less and 1 int more difference… He might have overthrew, but at the same time Thigpen had the chiefs in contention of winning some games, like the last 10 of them, whereas the Patriots Defense had Cassel in contention of winning his games. If the chiefs defense could have held at the end of the games they would have had a lot better record last year. Cassel’s flaws will be shown this year in KC and then everyone will know why the Patriots weren’t holding on to him…
By the way, the shotgun will probably be the base offense considering thats the offense that the Pats ran last year for Cassel because he wasn’t really efficient playing from under center.
who has the most INTs on defense I wonder, so far it sounds like DJ and Leggett have the most.
I think our biggest need now would probably be WR, I was going to say RT, but I think with us passing the ball more and no Tony G, I think we need to have another great receiver.
either way sounds like Thigpen is showing up to be the Rich Gannon in this controversy…
Sorry Thiggy’s backers, I like him just fine and so do you BUT Pioli/Haley traded for Cassel. Thigpen will not be given a chance to grab starting QB unless Cassel gets injuried or totally craps out (ala Brodie). That is the way it is, some of you should learn to live with it.
They’ll run the shotgun as much so for the reason that our O line still has a way to go too. I’m not a huge Cassel fan either. I like Thigpen and I think they’re both very comparable. I just don’t want to look through rose colored glasses either. Both of them have a ways to go before they’d be compared to a Manning or Brady.
Blake I think your right, but I think Leggett has more than Johnson. I wonder why Leggett is running with the 1st team though was Carr getting burnt or missing assignments?? Thats two practices in a row.
arrowhead1978,
I think they are just changing up the starters, Carr first started the Leggett for a while, today it was Colclough. Just like DJ got pulled for Williams, then the next day DJ was the starter again.
I really like Leggett, if he can gain the confidence I think he has a chance to be great, he is probably the fastest CB we have, probably one of the fastest players we have. He always seems to be in the right place at the right time.
I wonder if the defense is doing good or the offense is doing bad, or both. Sounds like D is doing good.
Arrowhead1978 Says:
Thigpen had the chiefs in contention of winning some games, like the last 10 of them, whereas the Patriots Defense had Cassel in contention of winning his games.
Cassel’s flaws will be shown this year in KC and then everyone will know why the Patriots weren’t holding on to him…
The glaring difference being…Cassel won while Thiggy did not (minus the Raiders).
And…wouldn’t Pioli know what the Pats thought about Cassel?
Good to hear Dorsey is back. As far as the Cassell Thigpen comparison the numbers don’t lie. Thigpen numbers compared to Cassell was about even 18 tds 11picks for tyler 21 and 10 for Cassell. Keep in mine Cassell played on a far better team in all phase of the game coaching, receivers, defense. I mean if u got any football sense its speaks volume what Thigpen accomplished with far less talent than what Cassell had.
So to me both guys have flaws. Cassell hangs on to the ball to long. And Thigpen can be inaccurate throwing the football at times. So its no surprise both guys are doing about the same.
At the end of the day though Thigpen did more with less around him and that is more impressive then what Cassell accomplished last yr. Besides if u had less talent and put up similar numbers with a guy who had more talent it only makes sense to assume if you had better talent your numbers would’ve been even better. So come on people who downing what Thigpen accomplished last yr.
stop it, more with less around him? he won 2 games, he had tony g to bail out to, and bowe, he also had LJ/charles and a decent offense MADE for him in the spread, had they asked him to work out of a pro set or a power I, he wouldve been toast.
Cassel studies film, Cassel is a LEADER, Cassel was on the pats, but they werent the same pats last year, and he made throw after throw for them, on the mark, to catch and run
Thigpen NEVER hits his recievers in stride, I saw it 2 or 3 times all year.
10 percent accuracy difference is not just recievers.
Oh and Cassel runs pretty darn well too, and he doesnt have the thigpen 6′1 drew brees style knock down at the line passes, minus brees’ strength.
Even though the D is putting in a new scheme, defenses are normally ahead of offenses until sometime in training camp. That’s not new. I would expect it even more so with new coaches and players.
I like both Cassel and Thiggy; nothing bad about having two legit, young QB’s on your team. But, I think Cassel wins out, for reasons stated earlier. I’m hoping Gailey will come up with some plays that employ Cassel and Thigpen at the same time. That, could be interesting.
I think Haley and Gailey are the types to get creative with the offense, as creative as it sounds like Pendergast will be with the D. I think variety will be hallmark for the Chiefs, both offensively and defensively, which I think will be effective and fun to watch. Deception is highly underrated and underutilized in the NFL, but this group of coaches might just bring it.
I know that’s not what the martyball types want to hear, but it’s what I like to see. Even still, I think there will be games, or long stretches within games, where KC goes heavy on the run. That’s fine. I just don’t want to see it every play of every series of every game, to the point where the offense even forgets how to do a pass play.
If Brodie Croyle gets healthy by training camp, I bet he’ll look pretty good before long, too. Then what do you do? He could look great, but who is going to trust him to go into a game, and not get busted in two? As a coach, what would you do if he looked better than both Cassel and Thigpen?
It’s great that Dorsey is back; he needs all the snaps he can get. If he can stay relatively healthy, I still think he can be a monster.
Man, I can’t wait for training camp, preseason and the season. Gretz’s reports keep me going, though.
Even though I think Thigpen is better, I agree with the poster that said if Cassel’s standing, he’s starting. In spite of Haley saying every job is open, QB isn’t, IMO. It would be too embarrassing for Pioli/Haley to not start the QB they traded for.
I’ll predict Croyle looks better then both of them if he’s healthy in camp, but it won’t make a difference.
The other thing about Croyle is that he is being paid starter money. I think he will be second string or possibly gone. While Thigpen was a nice “Rudy” story last year, he is not the best QB on the team. The offense was changed because he can’t play under center, he is just too short. It’s why so many passes are overthrown. His trajectory has to go up to get over the line. He is more like Doug Flutie who was a gimmick quarterback in the NFL. Nice kid, good story, not someone to build your team around.
Alex k, he didn’t have a defense that would hold another team from scoring at the end of the game, like when they played San Diego, Like when they got beat by Jeff Garcia and the Buccaneers, at the end of the game when they needed a stop the Defense let him down. Not Thigpen’s loss. He did have Tony G to bail him out and Tony did all that he could do to help him out, 1,000 yds and 10 tds, not much more he could have done for the team. And he also Championed for Thigpen to start this year because he apparently felt that Thigpen was a leader and gave the team a chance to win.
Ed, I agree, more with less… Who was the QB with the receivers that led the league in yards after the catch?? Cassel, it helped balloon his yardage numbers. Also, if you paid attention last year the Pats went with the shotgun because Cassel didn’t have the quick reads coming from under center, so the argument that thigpen had a special offense made up for him is bogus. He didn’t have LJ or a running game, I watched way to many times when the chiefs couldn’t convert a 3rd and 1 on the ground last year…
BinSC —- Croyle is set to be paid $500,000 this year..That’s some piss poor “starter money”…
I trully just can’t understand why their are still fans clamoring for Brodie Croyle when he’s had more than enough chances..And why Thigpen gets put down because he played in a shot gun spread offense..He came in last year, had 1 bad game and then made the offense fun again..The kid isn’t from a large division 1 school and had never even ran with the first team before his turn came to him last year..If he can improve that much within a couple months, I believe he’s got the potential to be a “rich gannon” type of franchise qb.
Either cassell or thigpen will be the franchise qb for this team in the future.
Pioli and Haley (along with every NFL analyst) think Cassel is better than Thiggy or else they wouldn’t have traded for him. Denver even thought he is better (or will be better) than Cutler. I know…Josh McD is a Pat, but Bowlen and GM backed him on the trade talks.
People need to quit hanging on to the feel good story of Thigpen. Especially when the feel good story only got us 1 win. Blame it on the D if you want…but our offense was less than impressive last year.
Last call - last call - all aboard the #7 now leaving for destinations: North, South, East, West…and bench.
Which is to say Matt ‘Bust(op)’ Cassel will be leaving via Greyhound - or, at least his hands will from under center if early returns become a trend.
Nah….it’s only OTAs right? Why sure. Still…
Wally Pipp only had a headache or minor slump some say - Lou Gehrig entered by chance - and stayed till death did he part. QB Joe Gilliam came in to replace Bradshaw, Pete Beathard to replace Len Dawson, Ryan Leaf to…
This isn’t a death wish for Cassel, more like a wake up call - be afraid of Tyler Thigpen… be very afraid.
Matt’s likely epitaph?
Entered white knight in shining armor…leaves wearing a barrel - his Andy Warhol :15 minutes nee weekend(s) in NE give way to a Dennis Shaw syndrome. Like Gart Williams the Twilight Zone episode “A Stop At Willoughby” someone removed the bolt* that held his suit of armor together leaving him a naked target.
* Belichick, Moss et al as the bolt, TT as the larcenist.
Tyler ‘The Little Big Man from Coastal Carolina’ Thigpen: doesn’t have the size, or the pedigree or even the goofy Cameron Frye ‘Ferris Bueller’ simper Cassel evidences…but, aft the laughter subsides and the tears aplenty begin to fall in resignation another wasted #2 draft choice spent (this one via trade), so shall the Kaycee Chiefs realize their starting QB was here all the time.
Go get ‘em ‘Little Big Man’!
Rin,
You suck.
I’m good enough,
I’m smart enough,
and doggone it,
people like me.
One of the better differences of opinions for several articles. But you guys who really like Thigpen realize:
1. Poili/Haley were not here last year, in fact they were hired because it was so bad in 08.
2. They traded for Cassel.
3. Brodie only consistancy is he is a leader who cannot stay healthy two games in a row (since HS).
4. Our collective opinion does not matter a fig with the Chiefs.
Finally if Cassel is standing, he starts in 09.
tm1946 says:
“4. Our collective opinion does not matter a fig with the Chiefs.”
Point of the day…right there.
Personally, I think Cassel is the better QB option for us right now. I truly believe he’ll be a good QB in this league. Maybe not “great”…but good. But I also think Thigpen can make it there, too…in a year or two. He has the work ethic and the desire. I think his biggest disadvantage so far has been not having someone to learn from. And Cassel has had Brady to takes notes from, obviously.
I also think Haley will play the QB that he feels will give us the best chance to win, as he has said. The fact is, though, right now that QB is Cassel.
The (lack of) quality any as well green eyed angst via the repsonses to Rin are always in proportion just how much he hit a nerve. . .
In this case? The scribing patient’s condition be ACUTE - via football terminology and vernacular:
T-O-U-C-H-D-O-W-N RIN!
heh heh heh
Hey guys, he can spell. Too bad he’s incoherant.
T-O-U-C-H-D-O-W-N RIN!
—yawn— you have better game than that. If someone actually is great - he needn’t remind everyone how great he is.
“Him Dim Dim says:”
—yawn— I’m not sure you have better game than that.
“The fact is, though, right now that QB is Cassel.”
The key worry I have is large numbers of coverage sacks.
Leggett keeps this up and he just may claim a starting spot opposite of Flowers. He has been on an interception rampage lately.
SG says
“T-O-U-C-H-D-O-W-N RIN!”
- SG walks like me and he talks like me…
“—yawn—”
- close; Yahweh be the literal pronunciation, but you-
“you”
- yes, ‘you’ can call me Rin…or you can call me Rin Tin Tin…or you can call me RT… or you can call me RTT but ya doesn’t has to call me Yahweh.
“If someone actually is great - he needn’t remind everyone how great he is.”
- you ever heard of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali? A few Clay nee Ali-isms:
“I must be the greatest!”
“I’m the greatest of all times!”
“When you are as great as I am it is hard to be humble.”
Ali was right but only because (luckily for him) he never faced the rapier jabs of Rin Tin Tin.