Look at ’09 Draft Class Part 2 … Tuesday Cup O’Chiefs
On Monday we looked at the performances of the first four Chiefs 2009 draft choices during the off-season program and their prognosis for playing time and contributions during the coming season.
Today, we look at the remaining four draft choices, starting with sixth-round selection WR Quentin Lawrence.
The adjustment from McNeese State to the NFL has been a tough one at times for Lawrence. He’s heard the voice of Haley in his ear several times, and the head coach wasn’t whispering sweet nothings to his young receiver.
“The transition from college to the NFL has been the toughest part,” Lawrence admitted. “College was laid back, but here everything is up tempo, Coach Haley wants everything done in a certain way and he wants a certain tempo and that’s fast. Every day it gets a little bit easier.
“But yeah, I’ve heard from the coach.”
Focus has been Lawrence’s problem. It’s shown up on offense, as he’s run some bad routes and dropped a few passes. It showed up on special teams, when he was catching punts and dropped two of the four kicked to him.
“I definitely got an education with that,” Lawrence said of the punt returns. “I really didn’t do much of that in college, so it’s not something I’m used to.”
What Lawrence has shown is the athletic ability and speed that made him a draftable player. Several times in passing drills he simply ran past young cornerbacks trying to cover him. That’s why Haley has been tough on him, because he sees the skills that Lawrence could bring to the offense. His speed is something nobody else on the roster has at that position.
But none of it matters if he can’t get to where he’s supposed to be on the route.
“I’m going to be catching a lot of punts and kickoffs and I’m going to work on my routes,” Lawrence said of his plans over the next six weeks. “I’m going to catch about 300 balls a day. I know what I have to work on.”
Lawrence should concentrate on catching the punts and kickoffs because right now that’s about his only chance of making the opening day roster. The returner position is wide open.
“I think Quinten has shown some promise,” said Haley. “He’s shown enough to let me think that there’s a chance. It’s going to be a tough road for him given my past experience with guys coming from small schools and trying to find their way in and contributing early. But it’s been done before and I’ve seen enough from him to at least be encouraged. He can catch the ball, he can run, and he has a little feel for the position.”
7TH-ROUND RB JAVARRIS WILLIAMS
Coming out of Tennessee State, Williams was in awe in his first days with the Chiefs.
“When I was first out there I was running around not sure what to do,” said Williams. “I was a wreck. But now I feel good. I feel like I’ve been able to pick things up. I’ve calmed down and relaxed and that’s helped.”
Much as the linemen are hard to judge because there is no real contact in these off-season drills, the same can be said for running backs and how they run the ball. Williams has shown a nice little burst when hitting the hole, but his power remains unproven.
Catching the ball, Williams was inconsistent at first, but seemed to get better as the work went on. Again, training camp contact will tell us about whether he can pass protect.
So what’s his future? “I feel right now I can be a good role player,” Williams said. “Larry Johnson is a great running back. Jamaal Charles is a good running back. If I can learn my plays and come in and help out, I think there’s a place for me.”
7TH-ROUND TE JAKE O’CONNELL
The Chiefs like what they’ve seen from their young tight ends, led by O’Connell.
“I like our competition right now at tight end, I really do,” Haley said. “We’ve got a couple of young guys who I don’t think it’s far off to say that they could be in the hunt somewhere along the line.”
O’Connell at 6-3, 250 pounds is the smallest of the five tight ends on the roster. It’s tough to get a picture of his blocking, but he’s shown the ability to run patterns out of the slot, as well as running them at the traditional tight end spot.
“We run a lot more routes here than I’ve run before,” said O’Connell. “There’s a lot of detail and mental work I need to do. I feel I’m in good condition. I’m just trying to learn everything.
“Hopefully I’ll be able to contribute in some way.”
The Chiefs figure to carry three tight ends, and after Brad Cottam, the race seems wide open. O’Connell will be part of that battle.
7TH-ROUND K RYAN SUCCOP
There’s no question that Succop posses a powerful right leg. Watching him kick during the workouts showed he had more distance than Connor Barth. He was also more inconsistent.
But Succop also has been getting used to the swirling winds of the Chiefs practice field.
“Yeah, it’s been all over the place,” said Succop. “One day, it’s coming from the west, one day it’s from the south, the next day from the east. It keeps you on your toes.”
From the public practices, neither one of the kickers seemed to have an edge when it came to field goals. The Chiefs didn’t do much work kicking off while the media was around, so it’s hard to tell how Succop did in that area. But based on the power he showed on some of his field goal attempts, Succop would seem to have an edge there. There’s also his ability to punt; a regular NFL punter he could not be, but he could fill in for an emergency and handle the job.
“I believe I can kick in the league,” said Succop
SIGNINGS & MOVEMENT AROUND THE LEAGUE
BENGALS – signed seventh-round draft choice DT Clinton McDonald.
DOLPHINS – signed S Tyrone Culver to a contract extension.
FALCONS – signed sixth-round draft choice LB Spencer Adkins
VIKINGS – signed seventh-round draft choice S Jamarca Sanford.
SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY …
Born on June 23, 1967 in Glenwood, Illinois was TE Derrick Walker. He spent four seasons with the Chiefs (1994-97), appearing in 58 games with 28 starts. Walker caught 75 passes for 720 yards and five touchdowns during his time in Kansas City.
Born on June 23, 1970 in Galliapolis, Ohio was TE/LS Mike Bartrum (left). He played in three games with the Chiefs during the 1993 season as a rookie free agent out of Marshall. Bartrum went on to play a dozen more seasons in the NFL as a long snapper with Green Bay, New England and Philadelphia.
Nice read. As always, thanks Bob. I’d like to see another on the new group of college free agents, then another on veteran free agents. Perhaps, one on players returning from injury, too.
Given their status as late round draftees, it might explain the lack of personal confidence in all these comments. The RB, for example, sees himself as a role player?
I’d rather have the guy say that he’s here to win a job as the starter. Then the WR says he hasn’t returned the ball in college? How about: “I have skills to excel at whatever is asked of me”.
Small nags on my part but the comments of this late round group of draftees don’t give me a lot of confidence because they failed to show confidence in themselves.
By the way, another excellent overview Bob, and thanks for it.
I don’t know, Rip ‘em. I kinda’ like Lawrence’s honesty. And I think Williams is just being realistic. He’s not going to come in and start right away. He knows that. We all know that.
I do understand your point about having confidence in yourself. I guess I just didn’t read the same thing as you did in their comments. Seems like a couple of intelligent guys who know what they need to do to make this team, to me. Because none of these players are a “lock” to be one of the 53.
This draft class is probably what we should expect during the Pioli/Haley era: solid, intelligent and willing to work.
It seems painfully slow but as in most cases a turn around from bad to decent to good takes time. It took a lot of time for the roster and the team to reach the level of performance we have seen the last couple years, so the change will also be gradual.
It’s doubtful we will see a lot of flashy types being drafted or signed. Scott Pioli is building a team where there is little room for somebody who values personal statistics and stardom above the good of the team.
Thanks for your insights and info, Bob. Keep up the good work.
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For every ‘Bullet’ Bob Hayes, 25 other duds…the age old - trying to turn a fast guy into football player - pro level that is.
The Chiefs have tried it with little success over the years; some of the notables who tried:
WRs Jimmy Hines 9.1 100 & Clyde Glossen 9.2 100, and HB Grundy Harris 9.3 100.
The late Stone Johnson was the first memorable Chief who tried & tragedy aside may or may not have made it - perhaps a bit harder thence all told as only 33 roster spots were available in ‘63 & fewer teams pro football to audition for.
Some guys were football savvy enough to take some advantage of their great speed - CB Emmitt Thomas who came to KC a WR, ended a HOF’r - Noland Smith was essentially a KR who dabbled at WR; later, HB Warren McVea and WR Larry Brunson had more than a cup of coffee career wise. Later the Chiefs had a guy named Greg Hill … he was fast in a straight line; cutting/lateral movement? Not so much.
KC’s Quinten Lawrence has the odds against him, befitting his late round drafting. Injury aside he is small, especially for pro football circa 2009 - but he has that speed so if he evidences some wiggle, he has a chance.
Rin would say his chances are no better or worse than last years #6 pick Kevin Robinson.
I would say Lawrence has a better chance than Robinson just for the fact he isn’t coming in on the injured list. Still bothers me that we drafted injured players last year.
I think the observation that these are the types of drafts to expect is probably accurate. I think some of these guys were drafted because they did understand what their role would be and would fit in. Don’t need a Larry Johnson being drafted behind Priest Holmes and then pouting when he didn’t start…
I like guys who know where they fit and buy into the system with reward in the future if they produce.
Tracy & B in SC,
Good points. And that’s really why Pioli was brought here…to build us a team. TEAM. I hate to keep using New England as an example, but…that’s the type of team they have. They can lose a good player to FA, or to an injury…and there’s someone right there to take their place, because their roster is solid all the way through. Even losing their best player last year on opening day, they still went 11-5. Every player knows their job, or “role”…and they do it.
I don’t know about the rest of you guys…but that’s the type of team I want the Chiefs to be. And I truly believe that Pioli and Haley are the guys that are going to give it to us.
And now, I feel a “search & check” rant coming. Take it away, JW.
re: Scott’s comments
Those are good counter-points Scott and let’s hope yours are more accurate as it relates to the players in question than my take on their statements.
Hey Bob, I dont remember these players names being called very much in the practices.
Mark Bradley
Jammal Charles
Brandon Flowers
Zach Thomas
How are they doing? The only thing I heard on Thomas was his leadership, but I havent heard anything on his play. Could you tell use how they are doing? Thanks
B in SC said
“I would say Lawrence has a better chance than Robinson just for the fact he isn’t coming in on the injured list.”
- uh-hah? AFLAC! In a way vague way your blog opine tries to make sense, and yet…
Robinson ‘made’ the team ‘08 despite his injury; Lawrence hasn’t yet - if ever will he - made the team, sans injury… so, the onus is on Lawrence who has not, rather than Robinson who did.
As the best Lawrence could do is make the team (only alternate being to not) your opine isn’t sequitur vis a vis your thinking that Lawrence has a ‘better’ chance. Better than ‘what’?
Rin reiterates; Lawrence has no better or worse a chance of making the team than Robinson did - the latter who did so despite an injury.
That is all…for now.
I’m still a little perplexed that we have not signed any of our draft picks yet. Granted some of them are still a question mark. I thought they needed to be signed prior to training camp or they could waive camp until a contract was presented & signed. I’m sure the coaches have made some decisions on these players, yet they are on vacation with training camp looming. I understand about the #1 draft picks not signing yet.
Can someone out there explain to me the logic in delaying contracts on some of the later draft picks?
Hope they get all of them signed soon. Because of the secrecy around the practices, we have no idea of just what we have in the draft picks. None appear to be world beaters but that may change in the distant future, got to hope for the best or here we go wasting another year.
Con su permiso, I’d like to say something else about this site that I’ve been thinking but not saying for the past several months:
Like most fans of the Chiefs, I visit various board sites which will remain un-named but most of you know them well, only to find empty rhetoric in the main, some even quoting stats/stories from THIS site, and overall stale comments and topics.
This is my way of again, thanking Bob and the site for quickly establishing itself as the very best source of Chief’s info out there, INCLUDING, I might add, the KCStar. Oooops, just named someone, but they’re in the big boy business so they can take it.
Thanks again to Bobgretz.com for outstanding info.
echo Rip ‘em. The best Chiefs site.
Its overlooked that if the punts were via Colquitt, he has a TOUGH spinning ball that lawrence has probably never seen, in fact, kennison couldnt even catch it at first.
another comment, how wild would it be if the TE depth chart is Cottam, then the two Te’s out of the same small school crabtree/oconnell
those must be the same winds that pushed a bunch of medlock’s kicks in, and not out.
I like barth, but lets face it, hes a 70-75 percent guy without the leg for long range. I think KC finally needs a long range kicker, as tynes was the closest we had.(Gansz Jr left, so did the special teams)
Succop has long kickoffs as well, and based on starting field position given up from last year, this will be key, if we can boot em 3-5 yards deep, and have one of the best coffin corner punters in the league, we will dominate field position
I disagree that his chances are not better than K-Rob.
Lawrence can FLY, K-rob could not run very fast, he just had the eddie drummond one move follow the wedge.
Realize, without the basic wedge, the return game changes this year, to where a speed guy HAS to be at that spot to get to the outside.
Does any other Team have any kind of feed of Info. close to this.
THANKS
Mr. Gretz
I just saw on the Chiefs website that they officially signed Succop. They now officially have one draft pick signed, their lowest.
agreed, bob provides the information and analysis that is impossible to find from someone in the know. Its beyond appreciated by many many chief fans around the States.
They till have 5 weeks to sign the draftees. I’m sure they’ll all be signed before camp, with the possible exception of Jackson. He could be tough because of the inflated contract Sanchez got at #5. He jstifiably will want more and as the 3rd pick deserves more than the 5th pick. An NBA like Rooike scale cannot come soon enough for the NFL. K-Rob was just another Herm failure. A kick returner with no speed.
Kevin Robinson was the far better returner than was Lawrence based on production.
Though neither player is big per se QL is smaller than Robinson & while quick doesn’t have the same elusiveness as a Robinson - which is what made up for the latter’s lack of great speed.
Robinson played at Utah St. compared to Lawrence who played at McNeese St - Robinson had 8 career return TDS in college, 4 KR & 4PR…Lawrence had but 1, a PR. Robinson had 21 receiving TDS and 1 rushing; Lawrence had 15 TDS receiving 0 rushing.
Watching Robinson in 2008 he looked good as a PR, not as good at KR- the opposite of fellow rookie Dantrell Savage, who looked better at KR than PR.
Bigger school, bigger body, better production for Robinson … smaller school, smaller body, lesser production for Lawrence.
Elusiveness = Robinson … Speed = Lawrence.
Rin’s prediction: Lawrence ends up on the Chiefs 2009 practice squad - at best.
I just found this on NFL.com, thought everyone might be interested.
Chiefs to retire No. 58 worn by 2009 Hall of Fame inductee Thomas
Associated Press
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — The Kansas City Chiefs will retire the number worn by late Hall of Fame linebacker Derrick Thomas during a ceremony Dec. 6.
Derrick Thomas, LB
Height: 6-3
Weight: 255
Seasons: 1989-1999
Sacks: 126.5
Thomas’ family also will be presented with his Pro Football Hall of Fame ring at halftime of the Chiefs’ game against the Denver Broncos at Arrowhead Stadium.
It’s fitting that the ceremony will take place as the Chiefs face an AFC West rival whose Hall of Fame quarterback Thomas frequently bedeviled. Thomas sacked former Broncos passer John Elway 14 times at Arrowhead Stadium.
Thomas wore No. 58 during his 11 seasons with the Chiefs. He died in February 2000 of injuries from a car accident. He’ll be inducted into the Hall of Fame on Aug. 8 in Canton, Ohio.
Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press
In the back of your mind, by retiring Thomas’ number, you have to wonder if the Chiefs are just trying to garantee attendance late in the 09 season.
Sort of wish local reporters would have uncovered the over weight situation with the Chiefs. Makes you wonder, everything is a secret in KC but some out of area guy can get info??
No, just no, K-Rob returned on good blocks, and followed those blocks, he was a one move guy that was neither fast nor quick, just productive.
He came to the NFL and was a step too slow, Lawrence runs a 4.2….
Oh, they don’t ‘block’ at McNeese State, only at Utah same…
heh heh heh
Larry Marshall was too slow, so too Ed Podolak… yet both were excellent punt returners.
Jimmy “Don’t Call Me Duncan” Hines was a 9.1 100, Clyde “The Glide” Glossen 9.2 100 - both w/speed world class sprinters…forunners a Lawrence who will stall out just the same…
Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait
Rin, NO NO NO
there is no way, NO way, that you can argue school size affects who is a better returner between robinson and lawrence, did robinson lead COLLEGE football in returning? Yes, but he also struck out last year as a returner in the NFL
I bet all recievers drafted In Jerry Rice’s draft year were better due to playing at a bigger school right?
Rin Tin Tin is by far the worst part of this website.
Bob, Ban Rin, hes just an idiot. Its one thing to have an opinion, its another to just make stupid stupid statements.
oh and Rin, if Lawrence is on the P.S this year, it beats where Kevin Robinson is….
cough.
yes, eddie drummond was slow, one step, one move, SAME returner as robinson, could he be successful? MAYBE, but he WASNT, whereas Lawrence has yet to get his shot.
Just quit while you are getting owned.
alex k says
“oh and Rin”
- please, no fawning o’er me without a reservation…make an appointment first.
“if Lawrence is on the P.S this year, it beats where Kevin Robinson is.”
- Robinson made the Chiefs in his first season… Lawrence will not. Clear, crystal?
Anything else before I deposit you next the curb again? Rin can take it a little slower for your benefit if need be…
alex k says
“Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait”
- time waits for no man…neither too doth Rin Tin Tin!
“Rin, NO NO NO”
- I love it when they beg…
“there is no way, NO way, that you can argue school size affects who is a better returner between robinson and lawrence”
- competition, knave. Shall I leave a connect the dots nee color by the assignment for you instead?
“did robinson lead COLLEGE football in returning? Yes”
- did Lawrence? No - he didn’t even lead his ‘own’ team.
“but he also struck out last year as a returner in the NFL.”
- he struck out to the tune of 8.5 per PR and had the longest return of the season; he also had 22+ yards per return kickoffs…how long have you had myopia?
“I bet all recievers drafted In Jerry Rice’s draft year were better due to playing at a bigger school right?”
- I bet big school LSU Tyson Jackson drafted at #3 was better than all the other players Chiefs could’ve drafted - or gotten if a true personnel man had been in charge for the Chiefs & could’ve swung a trade for more picks… six of one, half a dozen of the other.
“Rin Tin Tin is by far the worst part of this website.”
-how nice of you to ‘notice’ - and fail to pass without being able to ‘not’ mention His name… you are welcome to your opine, as am I to mine: Rin won’t say what his be of you; that would be uncivilized…
heh heh heh
“Bob, Ban Rin, hes just an idiot. Its one thing to have an opinion, its another to just make stupid stupid statements.”
- Bob G, ban alex k, for he is a lost soul who vexes not only his spirit but everyone else’s…
alex k says
“yes, eddie drummond was slow, one step, one move, SAME returner as robinson, could he be successful? MAYBE, but he WASNT whereas Lawrence has yet to get his shot.”"
- Drummond was successful and in the league for many years - even had he been in said for only one twould’ve been one more than Lawrence will be…
“Just quit while you are getting owned”
- Rin loves it when they beg, which is to say:
(alex k speaking to Bob G)
“Bob, Rin is making me look foolish & I can’t do anything about it- will you help me Bob please?!
Rin’s killin me Bob G, He’s killin’ me!”
rin, you are “killin” me? HOW? With your amazing argument that drummond has more years on Lawrence therefore hes better….this is a what have you done for me lately type of league, Lawrence hasnt had the chance to show this, K-Rob Did, and K-Rob failed, the comparison to Drummond was off of his 1 move style and lack of speed. By no means did K-Rob have the success of Drummond….
You are one of those people who thinks that just because you have some strange style to your moronic writing, that you win arguments…instead you just look really really stupid.
As for asking Bob to get rid of you, it has nothing to do with your percieved victory, it has to do with the fact that you post nonsense. ALL the time.
You are hated by CHIEF fans on this board, what does that tell you?
alex k says
“rin”
- yes, what is it now dead one walking?
“you are “killin” me?”
- like a frog slowly being scalded to death, one degree at a time atop the stove football blogdom.
“HOW?”
- that you even have to ask affirms said…
“With your amazing argument that drummond has more years on Lawrence therefore hes better….this is a what have you done for me lately type of league, Lawrence hasnt had the chance to show this, K-Rob Did, and K-Rob failed, the comparison to Drummond was off of his 1 move style and lack of speed. By no means did K-Rob have the success of Drummond…. You are one of those people who thinks that just because you have some strange style to your moronic writing, that you win arguments instead you just look really really stupid.”
- can you repeat all that - Rin wasn’t listening to you…again.
“As for asking Bob to get rid of you, it has nothing to do with”
- of course not; your ‘work’ here speaks for itself…’servee’
“your percieved victory, it has to do with the fact that you post nonsense. ALL the time. You are hated by CHIEF fans on this board, what does that tell you?”
- Rin is still here…what do you think?
heh heh heh
“I just saw on the Chiefs website that they officially signed Succop. They now officially have one draft pick signed, their lowest.”
Anyone got a feel for how this offseason will shape out in terms of signing players with “Search” at the helm? Are we looking at any hold-outs or will our guys be in camp on time?
Rin, you lost, K-Rob is jobless, move on.
oh and your small school argument sucks…Carr sure struggled didnt he?
alex k doth protest too much & in a muffled manner for one his head kicked up ‘tween his haunches…
Game, set, match - Rin! brand ‘al k’ was ne’er e’en in the game…
alex k
And Dorsey (LSU) & McBride (Tennessee) haven’t… have they ‘al k’ - aka, ‘defeated again’.
heh heh heh
“Game, set, match - Rin!”
You’d probably be on the winning side of a tennis match with me…a chess match though - there’s a reasonable chance you’d find yourself being ‘check’mated!
I Rin have beaten mine Bobby Fischer level software ‘Chessmaster’ on my computer; Rin challened Fischer to an in person match but Bobby instead opted to up & die ra’her than taste defeat mano y mano…