Position Overview: Linebacker
Over the next 10 days, until the start of training camp late next week, we will take a look at the Chiefs 2009 roster and break down the 80-player group based on the nine position groups.
We’ll also provide some perspective on what each group has done in this decade of Chiefs football.
Last year, the biggest problem position on the Chiefs defense was linebacker. That was with just three spots in the scheme.
Now, the Chiefs will have four linebackers on the field.
Pioli/Haley believe they’ve raised the level of talent at the position with the addition of a trio of veteran linebackers: Mike Vrabel, Zach Thomas and Monty Beisel. But there’s also the switch of three defensive ends – Tamba Hali, Turk McBride and Andy Studebaker – to outside linebacker, a move that is fraught with the flavor of trying to force square pegs into round holes. And, there’s the continued wait for Derrick Johnson (above) to have a breakout-type season.
Question marks remain at linebacker.
Here’s how the bodies break down within the position.
OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS
Tamba Hali/Pre-Camp Starter (left) (4th season/47 games-47 starts/180 defensive tackles). Moving from a three-point stance with a hand on the ground as a defensive end to standing as an outside linebacker is a major change. There were times in the off-season practices when Hali struggled with his new position. But as the workouts went on, Hali made progress with his pass coverage drops. He still looks awkward playing in space and his always running motor may need to be tempered a bit or he’ll get pulled out of position. Hali’s future with the Chiefs will be evident in the first half of the season.
Turk McBride (4th/25 games-10 starts/47 defensive tackles/4 special teams tackles). Also making the move outside, McBride’s participation in the off-season was limited as he recovered from a rotator cuff injury/surgery. He’s more of a natural athlete than Hali so he doesn’t look out of place, but the transition is a tough one for him. McBride needs to stay healthy; in two seasons he’s played in 25 of 32 possible games. He needs to make a step forward in performance and production or he’ll find himself moving on.
Andy Studebaker (2nd/6 games/2 defensive tackles/3 special teams tackles). When he went to training camp last year with Philadelphia, he was playing an outside linebacker position. The defensive scheme was different, but he went through the pre-season standing up. He was moved to defensive end when he joined the Chiefs last year, and is now making the move back. There’s some athletic ability with Studebaker, but the position switch will make it tough on him.
Mike Vrabel/Pre-Camp Starter (13th/176 games-110 starts/681 defensive tackles/47 special teams tackles). It’s hard to know what to expect from this former New England veteran. His decision to only participate in what was required of him under his contract doesn’t speak well to his feelings about being with the organization. There was much that Vrabel could have imparted to his new teammates over the off-season program. His decision to stay away makes one wonder about his commitment. Vrabel is at the end of his career; that’s why the Patriots were willing to drop him. He had 67 total tackles and four sacks last year, his lowest totals in seven seasons. Vrabel will get by more on experience than on talent at this point. That’s surely an upgrade from what the Chiefs had last year, but it’s hardly a foundation block for the revamped defense.
Pierre Walters (undrafted rookie/35 college starts/154 total tackles) Walters passes the eye test with his size (6-5, 269 pounds.) He was a productive player at Eastern Illinois yet wasn’t drafted. Watching Walters in the off-season program, he’s not especially fluid and doesn’t have great speed. He will need a big training camp and pre-season on special teams to make the opening day roster.
INSIDE LINEBACKERS
Jovan Belcher (undrafted rookie/45 college starts/293 total tackles). A bit small (6-2, 228 pounds) to play inside, Belcher showed in the off-season program that he could be a thumper. He certainly was a productive player at Maine given his average of more than eight tackles per game over four seasons. Belcher has a chance to be a special teams star.
Wes Dacus (2nd/8 games/5 defensive tackles/4 special teams tackles). Dacus was able to survive last year as an undrafted rookie because of his brain and his love of contact. He worked with the No. 3 defense in the off-season program and he’ll need to show something in training camp to be able to move up to the second team. If he can’t do that, his time with the Chiefs will be over.
Derrick Johnson/Pre-Camp Starter (5th/59 games-58 starts/391 defensive tackles/9 special teams tackles). It’s time for D.J. to realize the potential that he’s flashed over the last four years. Johnson’s problem has been consistency. One game he’s the best defensive player on the field. The next week, he barely turns up on the stat sheet. Johnson’s move to middle linebacker at the end of the ‘08 season helped him focus. Now, he doesn’t have to worry so much about calling defenses, because Zach Thomas will handle that. The addition of Thomas may be just what Johnson needs to elevate his game.
Corey Mays (4th/32 games-1 start/16 defensive tackles/38 special teams tackles). Mays’ contributions with the Bengals for three years were built on his work in the kicking game; he was never able to crack the Cincinnati starting group at linebacker. His presence on special teams will be a big help for the Chiefs; his defensive contributions remain to be seen.
Corey Smith (undrafted rookie/46 college starts/271 total tackles). A bit under-weight for the inside, Smith was a very productive college player at Cincinnati. He must make a mark for himself on special teams; it’s the only way Smith will be able to leap ahead of more established players in the fight for a roster spot.
Zach Thomas/Pre-Camp Starter (14th/184 games-182 starts/2,043 defensive tackles/2 special teams tackles). He will be 36 years old on the first day of September; that’s the only worry with Thomas. There’s no question he’s near the end of his career, but he was a productive player last year in Dallas, even while playing a bit out of position. He had 177 total tackles over 16 games, his highest tackle total since the 2003 season. What Thomas brings in experience, smarts and leadership more than makes up for whatever diminished physical capabilities he may have. With the change in scheme and a new defensive coordinator, it’s imperative that Thomas stay on the field, because there’s no experienced depth to replace him. Right now, he may be the player the Chiefs can least afford to lose.
OUTSIDE/INSIDE
Monty Beisel (9th/110 games-19 starts/199 defensive tackles/111 special teams tackles). Beisel will be on the field in the Chiefs defense this year, more than likely contributing on sub-defenses like short yardage and goal line. That’s what he did last year with the Cardinals and that scheme and coordinator have relocated to Arrowhead. Over his career, most of Beisel’s contributions have come in the kicking game and that will be a major area of contribution this year as well. Beisel looked good in the off-season; he remains athletic and keeps himself in great shape.
Demorrio Williams (right) (6th/80 games-52 starts/427 defensive tackles/32 special teams tackles). During the off-season, Williams was running at inside linebacker with the No. 2 defense. He was signed as an unrestricted free agent last year to provide the defense depth, but he ended up starting nine games due to Donnie Edwards’ injury. Williams had 70 tackles, but was not a major force in the defense. He’s need to become a bigger special teams contributor; he had 11 tackles in the kicking game last year.
CHIEFS ALMANAC/LINEBACKER
Likely number of LBs on final roster: 8 or 9.
- A pre-camp prediction on the final eight: Beisel, Belcher, Hali, Johnson, Mays, McBride, Thomas and Vrabel, with Walters and Williams fighting for a potential ninth spot.
LBs that started in this decade: 17.
- Left Outside Linebacker Starters (8): Derrick Johnson 44, Scott Fujita 41, Lew Bush 24, Demorrio Williams 9, Mike Maslowski 5, Glenn Cadrez 5, Donnie Edwards 4, Keyaron Fox 4.
- Middle Linebacker Starters (9): Kawika Mitchell 48, Marvcus Patton 45, Napoleon Harris 13, Mike Maslowski 10, Pat Thomas 9, Monty Beisel 5, Derrick Johnson 4, Rocky Boiman 2, Glenn Cadrez 1.
- Right Outside Linebacker Starters (8): Donnie Edwards 48, Kendrell Bell 28, Shawn Barber 24, Mike Maslowski 16, Derrick Johnson 10, Rocky Boiman 6, Monty Beisel 4, Quinten Caver 4.
Note: Interesting that the player with the most starts at all three linebacker positions were Chiefs draft choices.
LBs Drafted by Chiefs in this decade: 7.
- First-Round: Derrick Johnson 2005.
- Second-Round: Kawika Mitchell 2003.
- Third-Round: Keyaron Fox 2004.
- Fourth-Round: Monty Beisel 2001.
- Fifth-Round: Scott Fujita 2002 and Boomer Grigsby 2005.
- Seventh-Round: Maurice Rodriquez 2002.
Note: All but Rodriquez will go to training camp this summer, but only Johnson and Beisel will be with the Chiefs.
I’m afraid Linebacker will be the weakest part of the defense again this season. I think it’s improved but far from a finished product. Thomas is old and he has had multiple concussions over his career. Having said that, I do agree if he stays healthy he will make a big difference.
I have no confidence that DJ will suddenly become aggressive enough to be the sack master we would all like him to be. Inside linebackers can’t just run around blocks from lineman, some times they have to absorb and shed a block. Something I’ve seen very little of from DJ. I wouldn’t be surprised to see his playing time slowly dwindle as the season progresses.
Beisel will be what he’s always been, a good solid player that I think has a good shot at taking DJ’s job as a starter.
Vrabel will start but I don’t see him doing much more than he did last season for the Pats.
I like Williams, I think he could surprise.
Kinda stoked on the kid outta Maine too!
It’ll be interesting to see who the starters are coming outta camp, but even more interesting to see who the starters are by seasons end.
I have done some research on the UDFA LBs and Belcher is up to about 246. He played at 228 in college but his training before the draft put on some more muscle.
My pre-camp prediction on the final eight: Johnson, Thomas, Vrabel, Hali, Beisel, Belcher, Walters, Williams.
I just cant see McBride making the move, he was a DT/DE tweener now he is suppose to play LB. I just dont think he is fast enough, quick enough, or good enough.
All of a sudden after reading the profiles of the prospective players, I feel a little uneasy. On paper it sounds like a group of rag tag wannabees.
I’m going to be optimistic & predict that Zach Thomas will be the brainy leader & Captain. His leadership skills will gel the defense & give us fans real hope as the year progress’s.
DJ does indeed have his break-out year. I agree with Bob, if DJ does’nt have the responsibility of calling the defense, he will relax & attack the football with quick precision. He will lead the team in tackles this year.
Hali is talented, just not sure he has fully exposed his true talent yet. He has got to find his true calling & position this year. If not, he will be traded next year.
Vrabel is a crap shoot for me. I think he has a attitude problem. I don’t have enough info on him to be sure. I will say this, if his heart & soul is red & gold this year we will thank Scott Pioli for him.
The Turk is my dark horse this year. He will be making the highlight reel from time to time & will be competing with Tyson Jackson for the most QB sacks. I know, I know… QB sacks are not our strong suit.
Monty Beisel is a great open field tackler. His special teams stats are the best on the team. For some reason I just like the guy. I see him as a clutch utility back-up in any LB position they put him in.
I’m not very good at analyzing players like most of you are, but this is my shot at it.
The rest of the prospects. I don’ have a clue.
Walters has the size and what it takes to be a RB.
He lettered in track on the hurdles–
“A pre-camp prediction on the final eight: Beisel, Belcher, Hali, Johnson, Mays, McBride, Thomas and Vrabel, with Walters and Williams fighting for a potential ninth spot.”
If Demorrio Williams, a free agent pickup with an actual substantive salary cap number, ends up fighting for a potential 9th spot…seems that it only makes sense that he would be cut.
If Vrabel doesn’t come in and prove above-and-beyond that he wants to be on this team…I hope HE gets cut.
jimbo,
“I’m not very good at analyzing players”
You did a fine job imo, I don’t agree with all, but your points were valid.
Scott,
I too think Vrabel is not at all enthused about being traded to the lowly Chiefs. But, to bad so sad for him. If he hates it that much, he too can hope he gets cut!
LMAO
How bare be the football LB cupboard ’search’ and ‘check’ have left KC ‘09? Can be summed up couple of names: Belcher & Studabaker.
A burping carbureted unit beyond it’s useful life (hadn’t even mentioned grandpas Zack/Mikey V yet)
Fortunately Chiefs fans, “any 22 will do” - right ?
daddy-o, & affirming…
TRUTHFUL T AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT BITCHES EVERYDAY ABOUT NONE CHEIFS ARTICLES,
SUCKIT.
Thanks Bob for your hard work and best info that you can get about OUR KC CHIEFS!!
MOst of use respect your work and appreciate it!
Doesn’t it sort of look like the pizza against wall trick at LB, Get a bunch of guys and see if any of them stick. My worry is if Hali and McBride do not make it as a LB. What do we do with them and their salaries? Comments?
I think hali can make it. I didnt think Mcbride was better.
Bob seems to think so, but im nit so sure.
I thot Hali had more raw talent than mcbride, but im not in camp and watching in person. Interesting take Bob had on them 2.
I hope the Chiefs don’t give up on Williams. He showed some ability to get into the opponent’s backfield at times last season.
I’m in agreement with gorillafan; I’m surprised at Bob’s assessment that McBride is a better athlete than Hali. If I had to choose between the two I’d keep Tamba.
yeah it cant be much worse than pat thomas was last season.
I think Mcbride will surprise if healthy, hes really athletic, and made a few plays down the field last year including forcing a fumble in the denver game(win)
Tamba Hali, not too sure how he will move around with his flat feet in the backpedal
to respond to the what will we do with their contracts comment…kc has a ton of cap room, they can eat the cap hit of losing these guys without worrying about it. With how Cassel has his contract structured, the chiefs are looking to be making their first big run on free agents in summer 2012
I’m not too concerned.
1. Thomas and Vrabel will be fine. I dont care how enthused Vrabel is about being here, but we need him to play, and he is a pro on the field. Same goes for Brian Waters.
2. I too think that Hali and McBride will be fine. Their primary responsibility is to PASS RUSH. I am confident our secondary can compensate for pass coverage limitations of our LB unit.
3. If we really need help at linebacker, then the chiefs will have an oppurtunity to pick up players who were either cut before the regular season or grab someone from another teams practice squad.
4. Everything will lay at the feet of our Dline. If they can get a push and take up offensive lineman blockers, than our linebackers will be able to roam wild….without that it will look like a repeat of Brian Waters on Ray lewis = no contest.
Anonymous makes good points about the ILBs. But I think the style of d-line play and the additional STOUT up front is going to do a lot more to free up the ILBs from having to deal with o-linemen as often, and simplify DJohnson’s decision-making. The ROLB is going to be playing a lot more like a DE than a traditional OLB. Hali and McBride will be playing lighter than when they were as DEs, which should make them more capable in the “changeup” to zone blitz, when DJohnson and maybe a safety are blitzing on the right side.
McBride, even though he CAN play stout, and IS bigger than Hali, is still closer to a DE/LB ‘tweener than a DT/DE ‘tweener. And I think he has a good football intelligence. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the d-line in a pinch or in pass-rushing situations, when he MIGHT move inside. I may be no judge, but McBride was a player who quickly caught my eye as a potential bright spot in a poor defense. A lot of the disrespect for Hali ‘n’ McBride flows from the square peg, roung hole effect, in a poorly constructed Tampa-2 roster.
I feel pretty good about the LB situation. I think Vrabel’s also going to be more of a rush DE than a LB who’ll be running with TEs and RBs on a regular basis. Like Hali on the opposite side, he’ll be dropping into zone on occasion as a changeup - not as a staple.
I can easily imagine DJ just using his speed to attack the halfback every play, and if the HB is in pass-protection, this’ll put DJ in position to make some sacks. The issue will be (imo) screens and wheel routes by the blocking back, when he’ll have to play SMART. But I’m looking for the scheme to basically simplify his job description, and utilize his speed.
What I see in the move to 3-4, especially in the switch to BIG, as opposed to SPEEDY, is a front _5_ that will be more focused on controlling the middle and attacking the offensive backfield, with the d-line protecting the ‘backers more than the previous scheme, which expected the front 4 to dominate the middle AND pressure the QB.
MY concern about this team is the one thing nobody else is worrying about: the secondary. To play the FRONT 7 the way they’re building this defense to play, the BACK 4 guys won’t be nearly as protected, and Brandon Flowers, a player I very much LIKE, may be exposed as a 1-on-1 size mismatch in the base D.
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Harry,
Absolutely! The Chiefs Corners are going to be playing a whole lot more one on one than required in a tampon two, but I think they’ll step up to the challenge, even excel at it, in fact I look for Flowers to make the Pro Bowl.
I still think (or hope, mostly) that the Chiefs will line up (especially early in the season) in a 43 under, with sub packages using a strict, or conventional 34.
Another thing I think is important is, Pendergast limit the number of schemes and packages he wants to install from week to week, so as not to prevent or retard the D from mastering their specific responsibility’s. I understand that a D has to make certain adjustments, depending on the opposing Offense’s strength/weaknesses but just “kiss it” early on and add to it as the teams skills and understanding develop.
After reading Bob’s report on the LBs, as a group, on paper and what has been seen in the mini-camps/OTAs, they pretty much suck.
Best hope they find a couple of surprise/over achievers in this bunch and with the obvious reliance on rooks on the DLine, right now, I don’t see the front 7 causing any opposing OCs any sleepless nights.
Pre-camp predicted starters-Vrabel, DJ, Thomas, Hali. Reserves: Beisel, Williams, Belcher, Mcbride, Studebaker. Hali will excel rushing the passer and playing the run. He’ll need all year to improve his play in space. Ditto for Mcbride, who I think may even see some time at end. I agree Mcbride is the better athlete, but Hali is a more natural pass rusher. He’s got a great first step, plays low and knows how to dip and lean. Once he gets comfortable at LB, Mcbride’s the type you could move all over, inside or outside LB, or DE. Studebaker, Williams, Belcher and Beisel all have interesting skill sets, and I think each will have their niche. Vrabel and Thomas are major upgrades from last year, and I look for them to help DJ become a consistant force. Walters, Mays, Dacus and C. Smith may be core special team types. Dacus plays hard and I like his intesity. Don’t know enough about the other three to say. Overall I fell a heck of alot better about this year’s group than last, even with the scheme shift.
I really dont care for McBride he is not a very good pass rusher and he makes too many dumb plays, he would always get a late hit on the QB too many times. I think he had like 5 late hits on the QB for penalties.
McBride had two roughing the passer penalties last season, but the kicker is that only 7 players in the entire league had that many, and the others actually had some QB sacks.
Harry makes some good comments — and consistent with what you saw from Pendergast’s Arizona defenses, there will be some secondary players (possibly) holding the bag. Sack and pressure stats may improve so that we look pretty “average” (#18 in those areas). Passing defense might get lit up like a Christmas tree (#31). Overall, does it still look like we’re in the #23-25 range in total defense? Seems that way…although an improvement is consistent with what we want.
By the way: great analysis, Harry. Your comment on the CB situation may shed some light on this draft selection:
https://www.kcchiefs.com/player/donald_washington
agreed on turk hitting the QB late being a problem, a big mental problem.
But, he also makes heads up plays down the field. like a LB can…he has the skill to do it, just may turn out to be a mediocre LB since his rush skills are limited
I wouldnt worry about the corners, they were left with a 10 sack D last year, thats being left on an island, whether in man, or zone coverage.
Dont complain about the LB depth, next draft LB will be addressed at some point, for now, Vrabel/Beisel/Thomas are all upgrades over Pat Thomas/Demorrio Williams/Wes Dacus
I believe Beisel is underrated, hes such a special player, goes 110 percent, really was a key on that defense last season in arizona.
Makes me wonder if Travis Leboy becomes an option.